by AJ
SquidU Etiquette: A different way of looking at the Squidoo Forum
October 7, 2009 in AJ's musings, Featured by AJ
This has to be the most difficult article I have done to date on SquidLog. Some Lensmasters have entrusted me with some very personal views. For that reason not all Lensmasters will be identified. Stand by for a slightly different article about the Squidoo Forum!
SquidU - The Squidoo Forum
MysticMama (aka Bambi) prompted my musings on Squidoo Forum Etiquette. She made me do a lot of thinking about how I may come across on SquidU. Her post “What Are You Doing To Help New Squids Feel Welcomed” was not aimed at me in particular, it was directed at the Forum Community in general.
Bambi made some general observations born out of some very specific feedback she had received from some new Lensmasters and asked some very pertinent questions:
Are you paying attention to how you are presenting yourself here in the forum? Are you behaving in a way that is friendly and helpful to our newer Squids? Are you being the best role model you can be to our newer members?
The discussion was open, honest and good humoured and the thread received over 950 views and 76 responses. However, apart from looking at myself, it made me wonder about other people on SquidU and if we really know very much about some of them at all.
So what about the SquidU Forum Guidelines?
The majority of people who use the SquidU Forum to discuss a variety of issues and promote their (and hopefully others’) lenses appear to understand how important it is to compensate for the fact that when you are discussing things using solely the written word, there is no body language or tone of voice to reassure people that you are not having a go at them. You are merely stating an opinion.
We are also able to read the Guidelines, both at the top of the page and on each thread and understand – most of the time – how we are expected to conduct ourselves.
(Yes, I know some people have obviously NOT read the Guidelines, they Spam, they post in the wrong threads…. but bear with me here!)
I got to thinking about people who may have trouble understanding the Forum “etiquette”, because they may interpret guidelines and various situations on the Forum differently to the majority of other users. As someone who has worked with Autistic children both at a special school and also in Musical Theatre, I know that they often have great difficulties with “social boundaries” and sometimes take things too literally.
Then I saw a post from Lensmaster WeddingZazzle, who pointed out that she could not understand why there were comments about over promotion in the Lenses We Like section, when the thread guidelines specifically say:
Come across a lens you’re particularly impressed by? Want to brag about your own? Share your favorites.
Now at this point I got out my Little Oxford Dictionary, which is always on my desk and looked up the definition of “brag”:
brag = to talk boastfully, boast of.
And yes, I then looked up boast:
boast = vainglorious statement, thing one is proud of
So when WeddingZazzle made her very tactfully phrased point about promoting her lenses, the lenses that she freely admitted she was very proud of, as we are allowed to do in Lenses We Like – she was right!
Squidoo HQ is positively, absolutely giving us permission to promote away in Lenses We Like and no one should be criticised for promoting every single lens they publish in this particular thread, if that is what they want to do.
Then I got thinking about if it is hard enough for people without any difficulties to work out what is OK and what is not acceptable on the forum, what about people with invisible conditions? Conditions like Autism, Asperger’s, Dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, Bi-Polar……
How might certain situations affect these Forum members? How hard is it for some people who may be mis-construed on the Forum? How many times have we taken someone to task and assumed that they have spammed, been rude or just got it wrong, when in fact they simply can’t help it?
Or do we ever stop to think that they may have some difficult or dreadful issues to cope with and they are having a really rough time of it, which may make them come across differently than they would do normally?
Cue some research!
I started a thread: Researching an Article about Forum Etiquette – can you help?
Various Lensmasters responded on the thread and some got in touch with me privately. As a result a few have answered my questions and their responses made interesting, worrying and in some cases amazing reading. In fact I have ended up with enough material for a couple more articles about some related but different issues.
If you are active in the Squidoo Community you will already know that some Lensmasters have been very open about the conditions they are coping with on a daily basis, either directly or because family members or close friends are affected. Coincidentally Lensmaster Spirituality (Katinka) blogged about this recently at Crabby’s Beach in her post Asperger’s on Squidoo.
Katinka discusses fellow SquidAngel Eelkat’s lens that describes what it is like to live with Asperger’s Syndrome. I did not know up until then that Katinka has taught people with Asperger’s but it makes her well qualified to make this comment about Eelkat’s (Wendy) lens:
What comes through very well in this lens, as in others by Wendy, is the difficulty of being different
This is what one of my contributors had to say about Autism and the SquidU Forum
(Note: some of what the Lendsmaster said has been deleted to ensure anonymity):
“I know enough autistic people to be used to dealing with them online, when they say so or when it’s so obvious that it can’t be missed. (It’s usually much less apparent online so even though I sort of know what to expect, I might well miss it on Squidu.)………….
Autism Awareness Ribbon
They also often know one or two subjects inside out – or at least those I know do. They are a group that could really benefit from Squidoo but I suspect at present it’s not very welcoming for them, so maybe there is more that could be done.”
Which made me stop and wonder how many times have people with Asperger’s received curt or dismissive responses on the Forum, when actually it was very brave of them to venture there in the first place? Of course it is difficult to make allowances for people, if you do not know anything about them…..but I will come back to that.
Ener-G (Gia) also helped with this article and in response to the question “Have you ever felt someone has been unkind, aggressive or unreasonable to you on the SquidU Forum?” Gia responded:
Yes, but those people are also unkind to others so I don’t take it personally.
And that is something most of us do – try to just shrug it off. BUT not everyone can do that, some people will take it really personally.
Another respondent, Luvmyludwig (Crystal) has Bi-polar Disorder and close family members who suffer from ADHD. In answer to the question: “What can you tell me about any of these conditions that may make people behave differently on the internet and Forums in particular, to those people who do not have these conditions?” Crystal explains:
The two faces of Bi-Polar Disorder
(I think we all know it is wise not to join in on the Forum if we are in a bad or emotional mood. I NEVER go on to the Forum if I am feeling cranky because I know I may just post something I should not.
When asked on the SquidU Forum “What do you think of my newest lens?”, I must admit that sometimes the first thought that comes into my head, is probably not the best way to respond. You know, the instant answer you would love to give: “Actually, I think it’s the crappiest of crap lenses I have seen in a long while!”)
Crystal goes on to say:
“For my family members with ADHD I know that they are quick to come to conclusions, so sometimes their immediate reaction is not the correct one and they can come off like a jerk instead of the wonderful person that they are.”
In answer to the question: “What allowances or considerations do you think SquidU Forum users should make for people with “invisible” conditions? Do you think they should stop and think more about who they may be addressing and what that person may be dealing with?” Gia made this very interesting (and sad) observation:
“Nice thought but I think it’s impossible to expect this. Just as my son is hearing impaired and his teachers never take the time to find out what that means, most people aren’t willing to step into the shoes of someone else.”
Crystal had a different point of view:
“I think that is the case in any situation whether online or off. I would hope that if I post a super duper emotional post that others could look the other way in the same way that some people (mainly my husband) can do that for me in real life. We are not all the same and we don’t all take things the same way, so I think making allowances for others is key for any type of relationship.
I’m sure we’ve all had reactions we wish we could take back at some point in our lives. I always try to remember this and tend not to judge people on one post, I look at the whole. I’m not going to condemn anyone for having a bad day or two.”
Unless we are actually told, it IS difficult to know that sometimes we may be dealing with people where some extra allowances need to be made, but perhaps as Bambi said a few weeks back, we should all stop and think about how we come across on the Forum?
Generally any really nasty comments on SquidU are few and far between and are dealt with pretty quickly. However, some of the stuff I have seen is borderline, in my view, and it must be hard enough for anyone who does not have an “invisible” condition to cope with, let alone someone who may have Autism or another condition that means they look at things somewhat differently to the rest of us.
Grannysage has a great approach, as she says on the Forum thread:
I try to read what the person is trying to say, not necessarily how they said it.
And as Crystal says on her lens Open Letter to Humanity about The Golden Rule:
the key is to treat others as you’d like to be treated
And I think that goes for everyone who uses SquidU whether or not they have an invisible condition. I do hope you agree!
There will be more about the SquidU Forum in a few weeks time, but next week it is the turn of Twittiquette.
A date for your diary!
Monday 12 October, 4pm EST (9 pm UK) I will be appearing on Giant Squid Open Mike, when the show will be devoted to AJ’s Musings on Squidoo Etiquette.
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You’ve written a very thoughtful post and it’s something we should all think about. I have a grandchild who is autistic so I know something about the condition. I have also spent most of my adult life suffering spells of depression. I have sometimes been on the receiving end of harsh comments, or at least they seemed harsh to me when I read them. Any time this has happened, it has really dented my confidence and made me reluctant to post again. Each time, though, I have because I’m not a quitter.
I’m also guilty of typing and posting first then realising I’ve been to harsh and maybe hurtful. I always feel bad when this happens and I’ve taken more care to moderate my ‘tone’ in posts as well as pick my words carefully.
Wonderful post AJ…I would like to add that also as we participate in forum discussions, we need to also we aware of cultural differences as well as disability differences.
I know you and I have discussed this before also, how people from different cultural background can easily misinterpret each other’s intent in a written environment as opposed to “in person”
In a large International web community like Squidoo, we have people from all parts of the globe communicating. Having worked in many multi-cultural environments, I know that communication misunderstandings happen often even when face to face, being online makes the potential for misunderstandings even greater between people from different parts of the world.
Wow that was so well written. I have not run into too many problems on SquidU, but I have read many posts that have seemed to get out of hand. When one goes to a forum they have to expect to get many different views from many types of people and not get so bent out of shape over it.
I look forward to the next post.
One of the things I’ve learned about people with disabilities of any kind is that they’re actually LESS likely to be offended at simple (even if negative) honesty. For instance: people with any autism spectrum disorder will tend to take people literally. This means that any positive praise we give merely out of politeness will be taken literally by them. Similarly negative things that we might be afraid could hurt their feelings are in fact likely to be taken simply as constructive feedback. That is: if it’s phrased constructively, preferably with practical steps as to how to change things.
I’m not sure that was clear. The thing is: for people who are out of step with social graces, social graces really aren’t necessary in the same way. What DOES work is factual, precise, unemotional feedback. By unemotional I don’t mean it’s not possible to talk about emotions, I mean that the subject should be discussed ‘objectively’.
The HOW things are said is indeed important – in responding it’s necessary to try and be factual, realistic and precise. This does NOT mean no negative feedback can be given. Just that it should be given in a way that points to how that lensmaster can practically do things better.
katinka´s last blog ..Man the Measure of All Things, Sri Krishna Prem and Sri Madhava Ashish
Stazija’s comment makes me realize that partly it’s simply impossible to take everybody into account. Where people with autism related disorders need precise, unemotional language that is factual, depressed people can be very discouraged over a little negative feedback. One size does not fit all.
katinka´s last blog ..Man the Measure of All Things, Sri Krishna Prem and Sri Madhava Ashish
Very thoughtful post on SquidU. I think that there are a couple of things that people need to take in mind when posting on any internet forum that is open to the international public.
1. With the diversity, and language differences across the globe there are bound to misinterpretations and misunderstandings.
2. Unfortunately, there are always some jerks out there.
3. It is better to think, then type, than to type, then think. We are all emotional beings, and being that forums are informal, and we are safe behind our computers in our homes, we may feel freer to express ourselves than we would in person. I think we need to try to take a step back and picture ourselves saying the same words to someone in person, and decide if it would be appropriate then.
4. Informality does not mean rudeness. There is never an excuse to become rude in the forums.
AJ, such a wonderful and thoughtful post. Something everyone trying to grow as a person should shoot for…not taking things personally. So much of the forum responses and such are related to the actual person doing the writing. If you get a curt or hurtful response, it’s not you, it’s them. I wish this could be learned. I wish this for folks who take things so personally.
MiMi´s last blog ..Week Four Challenge: Automobile Lens
Hi Aj, Great article. I have always tried to treat people the way i would like to be treated. Basically that is the point, right?
Carol ´s last blog ..MsSnow4: Lazing around the house today.
Great post! You never know what anybody is going through… whether they had a bad day, whether they have cultural differences, whether writing is difficult for them… or even if they have a condition like Asperger’s (which I had never thought of on the boards). If you try to be kind to others, that usually helps to make forum experiences more pleasant for all.
Brooke Lorren´s last blog ..1980s Russia versus US Today
Wonderful article, AJ! The process of participating in the research was very helpful and increased my awareness of myself and interactions in the forum. Thank you!
EnerG´s last blog ..Your Amazing Energy Self/Ka Body
AJ, this is a great article plus a well thought out one too. I can sympathize with what was said here and with the comments here. I also have battled with depression from time to time. I think no matter who you are regardless of your problems, everyone should take care and be careful of what they say. I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of harsh comments. Not on squidu, but this I think reflects all forum communities. Not just Squidoo. People don’t know if some type of problem diagnosed or not. It is best to err on the side of caution and think before you say if you can.
Trekkiemelissa´s last blog ..Giant 100 Club
Wow! Wow! I hope you discuss more about this on the Giant Squid Open Mike show on Monday — and thanks for the plug, too!
The whole time I was reading your wonderful article, I was thinking of that line in “Golden Pond” where the grandmother says to the grandson, “we’re all just doing the best we can!” I grabbed that line like a mantra. We are all doing the best we can, for sure. And in an international community like Squidoo, we have all sorts of folks with all kinds of different cultural and health issues. Thank you for shining your flashlight on this important fact. You article gives us all much to think about.
PS — and the comments here are so informed and wise!!!!!!!!!!! We are blessed with such wonderful folks at Squidoo, for sure!
Joan Adams´s last blog ..Aids for Low Vision updated Fri Sep 4 2009 12:26 pm CDT
What we put out there in a moment of haste can be out there for years or??? We can never be sure who will see it, or who will take offense to it, so best be careful. As one of the afore mentioned “sensitive” people I know how easily “some” get their feelings hurt. I’ve learned not to take comments on the net quite as seriously, but also to remember that others out there have not.
Good article, great point and might I say a lovely voice to go with such lovely thoughts.
As unrelated as this is going to sound, this thread brought up the memory of selling our RV back in the spring of this year. I myself ’suffer’ (albeit glady) from a syndrome wherein I generally trust that people I am interacting with have integrous intentions- that ol’ ‘love is blind’ paradigm. So when my husband went to the RV on his own to supposedly close the deal, I had no formal idea (other than a bad feeling I couldn’t pin point) that he would literally be attacked and the prospective buyers would attempt to steal the transfer papers vs closing the deal appropriately. My husband had no idea either- although all the signs were there in hindsight. Also in hindsight, we determined that it was just ‘one of those things’ that was karmically necessary for him to survive- we brought ourselves out of that negativity with gratitude that things were the way they were- he knows martial arts and had the merit to defend himself without causing damage to the other guy. It was a great lesson that appearance doesn’t always match essence and through it, my hubby felt he’d passed a test- in another frame of mind anger could have taken self -defense to an extreme that my husband did not wish to endure the karmic consequences of. In venues like this, it’s easy for appearance to not match up with essence. Determining whether that is true for what we’re posting and reading is a case of personal responsibility- maybe the two paradigms aren’t mathching up and therin lies the problem? A small but potentially gigantic tip- try adding the term ‘with love” or something equally kind in your signature. I noticed that squidoo signs off with ‘love’. If we can’t honestly do that, the thoughts/emotions may not be worth posting. One love, Darcie
Loved this article. It was very well written, and hopefully will make people aware of others’ feelings and to not take things too personally.